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BlueWanderer's Logs
Topic Started: Jan 29 2018, 09:16 AM (409 Views)
BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
Jan 29 2018

As the filtration system seemed to start working, I decided to give the new equipment a test by starting a new batch.

I used a small plastic container 6.5cm in diameter. Filled about 90ml distilled water and added a little aged tap water. After that I added a little coconut soil came with the original eggs to loosely cover the surface of the water. Finally I put about 20 eggs in to it.

I lit the container with a 20w white LED bulb with the cover removed. The water had been heated to about 29~30C (I guess, since I don't know which of my thermometers is accurate.) while I was typing, so I lifted the light a little higher. It's now about 5cm above the water.

Now the major problem is that I forgot when the eggs were collected. Hope they were dried long enough.

----
I counted the eggs in the water. And I found there are actually 50.

========
Jan 30 2018

20 hours,
No hatchling yet. I think this should be normal. But they were all laid by a abnormal one hatched within 12 hours... I don't know.

This time the eggs were kept at a cool place about 5C, while last time it was room temperature. And last time the water temperature might be as high as 31C during the first one or two hours of hatching.

...Or they just won't hatch.

----
About 29 hours,
First baby spotted. And interesting, it's red. The babies hatched from original eggs were pinkish white. Guess it has something to do with the diet?

========
Jan 31 2018

33 hours,
Baby No.2. Actually I saw it hours earlier. But I though it was just a piece of coconut shell. It was not moving and its antennae were not yet expanded at that time. What's more, it was floating on the surface while they usually sink at this stage.

I hatched some brine shrimps in a separate container. I decided to have the triops eat each other if too many would hatch. So I can't hatch the brine shrimp with the triops in the same container.

----
I found the water in the tank smells like peat now, and not becoming clear as I was expecting. pH was OK. And I checked the water under a microscope. Algae eating microbes were less than I was expecting. But I found the rotifers I collected from my axolotl tank survived. And they were swimming like crazy. I though they could only crawling. Guess it was them ate the algae eating microbes. But I think the water will become clear after all.

I did a 50% water change.

Baby No.1 has molted once, and is swimming happily.

----
Baby No.3.

I think I saw another newly hatched one not moving yet.

----
45 hours,
6 babies. Less than I expected. I decided that I would not let them eat each other after all. I moved half of the water and 3 babies to another container. There are 3 large babies in container A, and 2 small and 1 large one in container B now. I will move any new hatchling to container B from now on.

There were about 30ml in each container. And I added about 10ml tap water in the container I had been hatching brine shrimps to each of them. I will continue to add water till they are back to 90ml.

I moved some brine shrimp eggs to the triops containers. Moving wet eggs was as challenging as I thought. I won't do it again. I dropped the remaining eggs. And I added some dry brine shrimp eggs to each of the containers, too.

----
I saw a stage 3 nauplius holding a brine shrimp... I thought they would not eat anything before stage 4.

========
Feb 1 2018

55 hours,
No more new babies. Maybe the eggs are too fresh after all. I don't know.

----
The water in the tank final became crystal clear. Still lots of microbes. I can see trillions of tiny dots with bare eyes if watch closely. And there are larger dots seem to be rotifers.

----
59 hours,
One new baby. But soon I lost an older one, which seemed to be an albino.

----
69 hours,
No new baby. The biggest two are about 4mm long now.

It seems the ones in container B grows faster than the ones in container A. Maybe I will try hatch without detritus next time.

The water had become a little cloudy. But I decided to just let it be.

The snails in the tank had laid some eggs. Hope they won't hatch before triops can eat them.

========
Feb 2 2018

79 hours,
50 hours after first baby was hatched, well, they are no longer babies, except a new hatchling. The largest one is already 7mm long.

The two smaller ones in container B suddenly died 2 hours before. I decided to move them into the tank. I made a 10x10cm pocket with 250 mesh nylon net to house the small triops. I sucked most water in the container out, then slowly added tank water in. Then I put the container into the tank waited about half an hour. And I release the remaining two triops into the pocket. If everything is OK, I will move the other 3 to the tank tomorrow.

----
The problem of the pocket is too much place for triops to hide... It's a bit hard to find them.

----
81 hours,
The growth was totally stalled. Brine shrimps got eaten up. I should have added brine shrimp eggs earlier. And... the newly hatched one seemed to be eaten.

There are too many filamentous algae in the tank now. I will never play with them again.

I contacted the factory making plastic board. The diameter of the smallest hole they can make is 1mm :( But maybe I can have them make a smaller box that I can insert nets into the walls...

----
86 hours,
The smaller one in the tank is dying.

Maybe I've made the environment in the tank too harsh. I have always seen algae sticking on triops body. But this is weird. Some of their older sisters did born and survived in a tank full of the same type of algae. Maybe there are just too many algae...

I will try some duckweed when it becomes warmer. Or maybe I will just give up putting plants in the tank.

I saw a stage 0 nauplius half an hour ago. But now it's gone. Must have been eaten.

========
Feb 3 2018

Despite the harsh environment it lives in, the remaining one in the tank has grown much bigger than the two still in small container.

========
Feb 4 2018

The last one from container B had been over 2cm. But suddenly died after molting. Nothing seemed to be wrong when it just molted. But it became dying just about 10 minutes later.

Maybe it is still too much for triops to live in a "too aged" environment?

========
Feb 5 2018

Mmm... nothing new. I changed the water for the big tank. Oh, and they are 2cm now. The growth is one day behind the one died yesterday.

========
Feb 6 2018

Another one died. The remaining one is 3cm now. It looks healthy except that algae are accumulating on its body. I don't think it will live for much longer.

I will have to sterilize the whole tank and filtration system soon :(

----
I found it had grown brood sacs... I had thought the last batch got their brood sacs early was because of the high density. They are empty now while last batch already started laying eggs at this age, though.

Maybe my first adult triops got its brood sacs very early, too. I just didn't discover them.

On a second thought, I don't remember every triops got its brood sac when the first one started laying eggs. Something must still be wrong...

========
Feb 7 2018

It's having eggs... So I let it go out of the pocket.

========
Feb 8 2018

It has been growing slowly since Feb 6, only 3.5cm now. The last batch started to grow slowly after they got the brood sacs, too. Guess I will have to finger out why they matured so early.

========
Feb 10 2018

It only lays eggs within a small area, with all other places are covered by thick algae. It digs very shallow, lots of eggs are exposed. Maybe the grains of sand are too big. Or maybe silicon sand is too much heavier than coral sand.

----
I saw an empty egg shell still sticking on a grain of sand. But I didn't see any baby. I wonder if the baby was eaten or the filtration is still too strong for babies to live.

----
I cleaned an area where the current is weak. But the triops still laid eggs at its old spot :/

========
Feb 11 2018

I saw a baby about one day old. But it soon hid into the algae. I wonder if there are other babies hiding.

========
Feb 20 2018

I had left home for a weak and found the triops dead when I came back. Maybe they can't live this long with only algae to eat.
Edited by BlueWanderer, Feb 20 2018, 12:53 PM.
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BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
Notes for next batch:

1. Move the first few hatchling to a new container (container B ) instead of moving younger ones, which is much harder and doesn't seem of any obvious benefits.

2. Aerate the container. Hatchlings seem to be less active without aeration. At least aerate container B.

3. Maybe put container B in the tank.

4. Try hatching without detritus. Maybe I can just use tank water for microbes as I did for summer eggs hatchlings. Or maybe I just don't need microbes at all. Without detritus, eggs will stuck on the side of the container. I think I will stay with it.

5. I added too many brine shrimp eggs this time. I think I need only 1/10 of the amount. Keep some brine shrimps in a separate container. The amount they eat grows exponentially. Brine shrimps just disappear suddenly sometimes.

6. Hatch a little bit (like 20~30?) brine shrimps at the very beginning. Babies will start eating about half day old.

7. Maybe I should try moving the first few hatchlings to the tank as soon as possible. Aerating a container inside the tank may not be as easy as it sounds. Only let them accommodate to the tank water in container B for a short time. Well, I'm doing this this time.

8. The pocket seems to be too large for triops two days old. Maybe I should put container A in the tank, and aerate container B outside the tank.

9. Use larger container. Those small ones can't keep balance on the water.

10. A quarantine box should be better than a nylon pocket...

11. What if I use brine shrimp eggs as detritus(to prevent triops eggs from sticking on the wall of a container)?

12. Could it be the temperature made the triops mature early? Try lower the temperature when triops are young? Or maybe higher temperature. I found that all triops had matured after a dropping of temperature.
Edited by BlueWanderer, Feb 13 2018, 10:35 AM.
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BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
A plan:

* Hatch in a 11cm container (container A). Hatch some brine shrimps with the triops.
* When there are enough babies hatched, prepare another 11cm container (container B ), move remaining eggs to that container, and put it into the tank.
* Start aerating container A when feel proper.
* Hatch some more brine shrimps in another container as backup food.
* Put the triops in container A into the tank on day 4.
----

I think I can fix the air tube with two clips. Aerating a container inside tank is at least possible now. But I still have to keep the water level stable.
Edited by BlueWanderer, Feb 6 2018, 10:34 AM.
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BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
Notes about eggs hatched without drying.

* Appear to be normal eggs.
* Light seems to be a trigger.
* Seems not all eggs tend to hatch without drying[?]
* Eggs laid within certain periods seemed to have very high hatch rate.
Edited by BlueWanderer, Feb 13 2018, 10:28 AM.
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notostracan
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Shrimp Lady
Interesting notes and hope it's still going well.

Not sure what you mean exactly about using brine shrimp eggs as detritus, but I would recommend against it personally if I do have an idea of what you mean. Some would hatch, die and rot in fresh water, and the unhatched eggs would also rot - creating less than ideal water conditions for the rapidly growing Triops nauplii!

I find that most triops live the longest at room temperature (which for me means 19-22*C in the daytime, or I'm too warm ) without a heater, but to get the best hatch rate they like it very warm and bright to hatch!

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Edited by notostracan, Feb 18 2018, 10:41 PM.
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BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
notostracan
Feb 18 2018, 10:40 PM
Interesting notes and hope it's still going well.

Not sure what you mean exactly about using brine shrimp eggs as detritus, but I would recommend against it personally if I do have an idea of what you mean. Some would hatch, die and rot in fresh water, and the unhatched eggs would also rot - creating less than ideal water conditions for the rapidly growing Triops nauplii!

I find that most triops live the longest at room temperature (which for me means 19-22*C in the daytime, or I'm too warm ) without a heater, but to get the best hatch rate they like it very warm and bright to hatch!

Posted Image
Dead brine shrimps seem can stay good for at least 3 days here. I guess they can be eaten up before rotten. Won't hurt just giving it a try anyway.

I will try lower the temperature this time.
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notostracan
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Shrimp Lady
What do you mean "stay good"? Rest assured, as soon as they are dead (even before), unless refrigerated or stored in preservative, bacteria will immediately start to consume the Artemia in fresh water which ultimately results in toxic ammonia. Any measurable ammonia = dead or stunted triops nauplii. Do you have an ammonia test kit or any experience with cycling aquarium filters?

If you don't mind wasting Artemia and Triops cysts as well as your own time, then I guess it will be no bother to you trying, it's kind of a waste of life though... :(

I think I do understand where you are coming from, so I would recommend using fairy shrimp cysts instead of Artemia or it will just be a waste of life :unsure: .

You can buy fairy shrimp cysts relatively cheaply on eBay for feeding things like killifish ("instant fish") fry in a similar manner to what I believe your thinking :thumbup: .

You still need some infusoria however so Artemia or fairy shrimp cysts could never totally replace detritus for raising triops. I personally think live aquatic plants are far better than detritus for feeding baby triops (although make sure they are not treated with copper). Floating plants are especially effective removing ammonia too, go for that duckweed!

Above 30*C would be bad, the metabolism of the triops is sped up along with many other biological processes, but the warmer it is the less oxygen is in the water...so basically things can go wrong much faster and you won't have a healthy growth rate for the triops. I would definitely recommend investing in an accurate aquarium thermometer, they are a couple of or $ posted from eBay at most :) .
Edited by notostracan, Feb 23 2018, 12:15 AM.
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BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
notostracan
Feb 22 2018, 11:11 PM
What do you mean "stay good"? Rest assured, as soon as they are dead (even before), unless refrigerated or stored in preservative, bacteria will immediately start to consume the Artemia in fresh water which ultimately results in toxic ammonia. Any measurable ammonia = dead or stunted triops nauplii. Do you have an ammonia test kit or any experience with cycling aquarium filters?

If you don't mind wasting Artemia and Triops cysts as well as your own time, then I guess it will be no bother to you trying, it's kind of a waste of life though... :(

I think I do understand where you are coming from, so I would recommend using fairy shrimp cysts instead of Artemia or it will just be a waste of life :unsure: .

You can buy fairy shrimp cysts relatively cheaply on eBay for feeding things like killifish ("instant fish") fry in a similar manner to what I believe your thinking :thumbup: .

You still need some infusoria however so Artemia or fairy shrimp cysts could never totally replace detritus for raising triops. I personally think live aquatic plants are far better than detritus for feeding baby triops (although make sure they are not treated with copper). Floating plants are especially effective removing ammonia too, go for that duckweed!

Above 30*C would be bad, the metabolism of the triops is sped up along with many other biological processes, but the warmer it is the less oxygen is in the water...so basically things can go wrong much faster and you won't have a healthy growth rate for the triops. I would definitely recommend investing in an accurate aquarium thermometer, they are a couple of or $ posted from eBay at most :) .
Mmm... Like, I have a microscope? There won't be too much room for the bacteria to bloom until the skin of the brine shrimps start to break down, which takes time. By that time, the brine shrimps are already eaten up.

There are always hundreds of triops hatched before I can collect the eggs. So I think tens of eggs are not much compare to that :unsure:

Fairy shrimps are way harder to hatch. I don't know how cheap they could be, but I can buy 50 gram of brine shrimp eggs for about $2, and I believe there are at least several billion of them in one bag... Actually I'd rather use triops nauplii as fish food than fairy shrimps as triops are way easier to breed. And collecting fairy shrimp eggs is a nightmare to me, too...

I believe triops fed with eggs grow twice as fast. I had one reached 5cm in one week.

Land plant like duckweed usally won't absorb ammonia well. They need mainly nitrite and nitrate for nitrogen. If you want to absorb ammonia with plant, you need certain type of green algae. But the ability is still limited. They eat but not breath ammonia like nitrifying bacteria.

There are triops live in very hot places, you know. It is possible that they may not feel well in cooler water.

Cheap small liquid thermometers just can't be very accurate due to the method they were made. I believe the thermometer of my water cooler is the most accurate one. I'm just not 100% sure and I don't know how accurate it is. I will have to buy a calibrated professional thermometer to be sure, which is too much of trouble. 25C is not that different from 26C anyway.
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notostracan
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Shrimp Lady
Quote:
 
Mmm... Like, I have a microscope? There won't be too much room for the bacteria to bloom until the skin of the brine shrimps start to break down, which takes time. By that time, the brine shrimps are already eaten up.

Not sure what a microscope has to do with anything or why you would assume this, but good luck with your endeavors anyway ;) .

Quote:
 
There are always hundreds of triops hatched before I can collect the eggs. So I think tens of eggs are not much compare to that :unsure:

Fairy shrimps are way harder to hatch. I don't know how cheap they could be, but I can buy 50 gram of brine shrimp eggs for about $2, and I believe there are at least several billion of them in one bag... Actually I'd rather use triops nauplii as fish food than fairy shrimps as triops are way easier to breed. And collecting fairy shrimp eggs is a nightmare to me, too...

Lucky you, most people do not have 100's of triops cysts that they can waste experimenting. Fairy shrimp cysts are readily available cheaply on eBay and other websites, they are especially used by killifish keepers to feed the fish fry live food that will not die and rot in freshwater, as killifish are often hatched out from eggs added to small containers - just like triops. I also found them very easy to hatch in distilled water when I purchased 1000s of cysts on eBay for under 5.

Quote:
 
Land plant like duckweed usally won't absorb ammonia well. They need mainly nitrite and nitrate for nitrogen. If you want to absorb ammonia with plant, you need certain type of green algae. But the ability is still limited. They eat but not breath ammonia like nitrifying bacteria.


Not sure where you could have heard any of that, but duckweed is a floating aquatic plant (it can only live in water - some members of the genus only grow submerged) so it's floating leaves have access to atmospheric CO2, which means unlike submerged aquatic plants it isn't carbon limited and can uptake ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (in that order of preference) much faster than submerged aquatic plants. Green algae can use ammonia as a nitrogen source, yes, but so can all other plants. I am not sure what you mean "eat but not breath" or why you are referencing nitrifying bacteria when aquatic plants can directly uptake ammonia.

I've been keeping planted aquariums for many years, but you don't have to take my word for any of this, simply type "duckweed ammonia" into Google and the first result is a paper published in 1982 on how duckweed is so effective at absorbing ammonia (and not as good at absorbing nitrate) - here you go.

Quote:
 
There are triops live in very hot places, you know. It is possible that they may not feel well in cooler water.

Cheap small liquid thermometers just can't be very accurate due to the method they were made. I believe the thermometer of my water cooler is the most accurate one. I'm just not 100% sure and I don't know how accurate it is. I will have to buy a calibrated professional thermometer to be sure, which is too much of trouble. 25C is not that different from 26C anyway.

It's possible for some rare species/strains maybe, but would not make any physiological sense from what we currently know about triops. Warmer water = shorter lifespan + less oxygen.

I agree there is not much difference between 25*C and 26*C for any commercially available triops species though. I'm not sure you have an aversion to getting a cheap thermometer, as you yourself acknowledge, it does not need to be that accurate as a1 or 2 *C difference is no issue for triops really. Are you using an expensive aquarium chiller on your triops tank? Cool if so, but I would still recommend a thermometer just like I would with any aquarium heater. If you just mean your water cooler for human use in the same room as the triops, then I would never rely on that to match the temperature of the water in your triops tank.

Edited by notostracan, Mar 6 2018, 11:35 PM.
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BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
notostracan
Feb 22 2018, 11:11 PM
too much quote

About the microscope. You can see bacteria with a microscope. So you can know if there are too many bacteria growing by simply looking at them.

Fairy shrimp sold here won't hatch without sunlight, and there is no sunlight from Sept to May in my house... While brine shrimps can hatch under LED light. It's like 2.5 for 10000 fairy shrimp eggs here. But with that money I can buy more than 100g brine shrimp eggs.
And about triops eggs, I think one can easily collect several thousand of them from one batch.

Land plants are species belongs to clade Embryophyta, not necessarily living on land. Green plants that are not land plants are all referred as green algae. Land plants prefer nitrate. They can absorb ammonia but very limited. Too much ammonia will hinder the growth of land plant. You can think ammonia is a bit poisonous to land plants, too. By the way, nitrite is preferred least.

Ammonia-oxidizing bacteria use ammonia as energy source, and they need a huge amount of them. They continuously consume ammonia and oxygen as long as they are active. While plants need nitrogen only for making chemicals used inside its body.

Can't open the link. But you can also find papers about duckweeds have no use against ammonia, too. Which make more sense as duckweeds are just flowering plants and there is no obvious factor driving them to evolve that far. Even they do evolve, you still can't rely on them to absorb ammonia to much for there is the math. Only a very small portion of their total mass is nitrogen, and they are not fan of releasing nitrite or nitrate to absorb more ammonia. (I dug it a little more. I found for some water dwelling plants like rice, ammonia may compete with nitrate. If they can consume the ammonia absorbed fast enough, it may appear that they "prefer" ammonia. But if not, excessive ammonia is actually blocking the plant from absorbing nitrate which is way easier to store and transport. Well, still appears as if they prefer ammonia.)

I almost studied biology when I was in university, so...

Experiments are experiments. Won't hurt to try I think.

Um... I have a heater and thermometer for the triops and a cooler for an axolotl. And other thermometers for like hatching triops. I can calibrate thermometers with themometer on the cooler. But since I don't know if the cooler's one is accurate, I can't say I have accurate temperature readings anywhere. That's it...

Crazy people are not always dummies, you know...
Edited by BlueWanderer, Feb 26 2018, 02:56 PM.
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notostracan
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Shrimp Lady
Well...I won't quote you "too much" this time :P .

Decent LEDs should easily hatch fairy shrimp cysts, any CFL bulb certainly would anyway. If it were as easy as your hoping, killifish keepers would just throw in unhatched Artemia cysts when hatching the killifish eggs ;) .

With regards to the plants...I know about Embryophyta, however I don't understand the relevance of taxonomy here. I was not taking about taxonomy, I was referring to physiology and growth habits. Duckweed is excellent at absorbing ammonia and can do so at a much faster rate than submerged aquatic plants (also members of Embryophyta) because it's leaves have access to atmospheric CO2. I challenge you to find ANY paper that indicate duckweed has "no use against ammonia" (in the aquarium context). When you get a chance, at least glance over the abstract for the study I provided a link to. If you are interested in biology, plants and aquatics, I would highly recommend you read Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium. It's a fantastic read and all of the information contained has references to studies you can check. It will should dispel any common misconceptions you may have with growing plants in aquariums :) .

Seriously I don't mean to be overly negative, and do wish you luck with your experiments, the important thing is you are enjoying learning through trying something.

I don't think I ever implied you were either crazy or a dummy, so I am honestly sorry if you have misunderstood the tone of my posts. I'm at least brineshrimp crazy at the moment hehe.
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BlueWanderer
Triops Longicaudatus
"The fairy shrimps sold here won't hatch without sunlight." means "I bought the only type of fairy shrimp sold here. And I can always hatch them under sunlight while I can never do so under pure artificial light."

I've been feeding triops with brine shrimp eggs all the time. And I was feeding triops with brine shrimp eggs right in this log. It's just I plan to put the eggs earlier next time. And I find you don't know why I will try that at all, even though I mentioned.

And I was comparing land plant with nitrifying bacteria, not duckweeds with submerged water plant. Maybe duckweeds are better than other plant, but they are still plants. (I highly doubt the CO2 theory though. But I'm tired of explaining the reason. You won't even try to understand it anyway.)

They way you always get meaning of my word wrong make me think you believe I'm a dummy and must be wrong.

And you don't know why I said "You can find paper about duckweeds have no use against ammonia". Papers are papers. They are just source of data. They are not absolute. There are many papers very unreliable.

The book is not sold here and I don't think I'd bother buy it. But I guess it is far from a formal text book or research report. Like, can you learn the mechanism of a cell absorbing ammonia from that book? I have learnt biology from basics (I mean basics for a collage student, not for a primary school kid). Biology is not like what you think. Science is not like what you think, either.

BTW, if that book tell you duckweed prefer nitrite over nitrate, you can drop it. Maybe there are, but I don't know any land plant that will actively absorb nitrite like it do with ammonia and nitrate.
Edited by BlueWanderer, Mar 3 2018, 08:02 AM.
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notostracan
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Shrimp Lady
Back to over-quoting for my last post in this thread sorry, I feel like I have to now to be clear and avoid any further misunderstanding.

Quote:
 
And I was comparing land plant with nitrifying bacteria, not duckweeds with submerged water plant. Maybe duckweeds are better than other plant, but they are still plants. (I highly doubt the CO2 theory though. But I'm tired of explaining the reason. You won't even try to understand it anyway.)

Comparing land plants (which, if you are meaning Embryophyta, includes all the aquatic plants we are talking about anyway) with nitrifying bacteria has nothing to do with anything we are discussing here though. The processes and bacteria communities present in soil and water are different, aquatic plants can uptake nutrients (like ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) directly from the water column through their leaves, stems and roots via diffusion. As far as growing aquatic plants in aquariums goes, any terrestrial plant associations with nitrifying bacteria are irrelevant here - most aquatic plants simply do not require them.

I'm sure I wouldn't understand your reasoning for not believing that aquatic plants with access to atmospheric CO2 grow so much faster than those that don't, I assure you it would have nothing to do with a lack of trying though. It is a very well known fact that this allows them to in turn uptake more N in the form of ammonia due to no longer being carbon limited, especially in the planted aquarium hobby. You have already implied your apparent disdain for studies, so I won't link you any more but I would seriously urge you to research and verify this for yourself as floating plants are so effective at keeping aquarium water safe for the inhabitants (and reducing algae), I feel like you are missing a trick here.

Quote:
 
They way you always get meaning of my word wrong make me think you believe I'm a dummy and must be wrong.

Wow, I'm not sure how or why you would think that, I don't think you are a dummy and I never even implied this. I'm not sure why your taking my replies so negatively, it's a big shame though :( .

I currently don't see the use in trying to discuss anything further with you, as you won't even look at the sources I have provided :blink: . That doesn't make me think you are "a dummy", stubborn...maybe ;) .

I thought I was being friendly and potentially helpful for others reading this thread wanting to learn, but instead I seem to have mistakenly offended you so I will stop.

Quote:
 
Like, can you learn the mechanism of a cell absorbing ammonia from that book?

Yes actually, I'm sure you are already familiar with the mechanism though, it's called "diffusion" :) . It's goes into far more details on the chemistry of what happens after the diffusion takes place too. It is very, very detailed and well written, most importantly, all the the information contained is directly relevant to aquariums (unlike the general biology they teach you in college/university) and provides reliable sources.

Quote:
 
Biology is not like what you think. Science is not like what you think, either.

Do you not feel this comment is unnecessarily pretentious/confrontational? I really have no idea why your replies seem so defensive am very surprised this discussion has taken such a turn.

Quote:
 
BTW, if that book tell you duckweed prefer nitrite over nitrate, you can drop it. Maybe there are, but I don't know any land plant that will actively absorb nitrite like it do with ammonia and nitrate.

I'm pretty experienced with growing aquatic plants as I've been doing so in aquariums as a hobby for over 16 years, CO2 injected "high tech" tanks and otherwise. I'm not just posting random made up facts in an effort to show you up, as you seem to be taking it. As you will not look at any sources I provide and have literally stated "Papers are papers. They are just source of data. They are not absolute. There are many papers very unreliable." there would be no purpose in my trying to provide further sources to educate you otherwise, so I am not going to. But yes, submerged aquatic plants (and those with their roots directly dangling in the water column) can uptake nitrite in preference to nitrate. Ecology of the Planted Aquarium even has a nice graph from a referenced study on duckweed clearly showing this.

I just want you to understand that I have been genuinely trying to be helpful and share knowledge, you have definitely misread my tone/intent if you are in any way offended.

Anyway, I'm sorry your thread has ended up this negative, I was just trying to help you and have obviously failed in that.

:cya:
Edited by notostracan, Mar 4 2018, 04:04 AM.
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